botania should legalize some "survival devices" of vanilla？

Amygdala

Vanilla players often have to use game bugs to complete some kind of automation, such as bedrock destruction, hell portal destruction, or TNT duper blast chamber.
Should botania change some mechanics to encourage players to use mana devices instead of game bugs?
Like changing Entropic Lens's explosion type from Block to TNT, or enabling the highest level Terra Shatterer to break bedrock?

adarsh

I think your entropic lens idea is good, mining with a potency/entropy mana blaster sounds really nice.

Not sure about the terra shatterer breaking bedrock though, just doesn’t feel right to me.

Wormbo

Relevant issue report for Entropic lens explosions counting towards the block rule: https://github.com/VazkiiMods/Botania/issues/4468

I've tried converting a TNT-efficient blast chamber into using a pulse spreader with entropic + potency lens in 1.19.2 already, and it seemed to work quite well, so that's be a mechanic I'd like to see brought back. That said, I don't agree that TNT duping is a must-have in vanilla farming, since it's mostly used merely because the block generator doesn't do enough to bring the blocks in an "explosion-friendly" shape.

As far as bedrock breaking is concerned – I like getting rid of that block as much as the average technically-minded player, but it's an exploit that does a thing that shouldn't be possible. Theoretically you don't need to break it for any of the usual farms. Botania offers other options to improve vanilla farm rates, such as not requiring item transport to a particular area for collection, since the Hopperhock with mana has a reach of 10 blocks, or force relays to transmit piston activations to other places.
I have similar thoughts about "nether portal slicing" (I assume that's what you meant with "hell portal destruction") – removing parts of a portal, be it frame or portal blocks, is a weird technique that may help with certain farms but again: Botania might cover some of those things in other ways.

Amygdala

Wormbo What I want to discuss is not actually "terra shatterer breaking bedrock" or "nether portal slicing", but whether botania can provide similar but weaker methods to replace these bugs.
In fact, although botania offers a simplified approach to other parts, the fact that "you can still use bugs to get better" still puts pressure on the player.
Often modpack skips this in other ways, for example they might offer Deep Mob Learning or Ars Nouveau etc. to skip the mob loot acquisition.

Amygdala

Amygdala I think only minor changes are needed to accomplish this, such as making Worldshaper's Astrolabe smarter to reduce the cost of ground modifications, or having Life Imbuer-controlled spawner not generate specific mob but select from a list.

williewillus

Hard no to bedrock breaking in Botania. The entropic lens thing is a potential bug that wormbo pointed out.