Botania 1.20 suggestions and integrations

Wormbo

Idea for running the Life Imbuer ("spawner claw") without any players around: Mobs spawned by that spawner cannot despawn instantly from being outside all players' despawn spheres, but they are still not persistent, i.e. they will despawn after some idle timeout passed. (Maybe there could be a configuration option to set how long they will stick around if all players are further than 128 blocks away.)

Kartabass

If this thread still takes suggestions:
I'm still hoping for the Flügel Tiara's outdated Gliding mechanic to be replaced by the elytra style flight, which is probably the best vanilla gameplay experience, and doesn't get use(d) in Botania at all. Nvm all the inventory management.

Somewhere else I already suggested changing the Heisei Dream so that Mobs killed be Mobs drop player drops. For Spider Eyes and such.

Kartabass

Just remembered another thing:
I'd really appreciate a Mana Sink. Something that could actually motivate one to build ridiculous Mana Gen, besides filling up a Terra Shatterer once or twice...

In an old GoG world I built a terrasteel-autocrafter just to so something, but the issue there is that terrasteel just isn't used for anything in large quantities. A thought I had back then was to have some kind of Item that takes a lot of mana (or terrasteel) to make, and acts as a consumable to delete bedrock.
Then, if f.e. you would want to build some farm, or structure large scale in the nether, there'd be a reason to build some proportionally large Mana Gen. Instead of just cheesing around with pistons and ring of loki, as you do now...

Wormbo

Bedrock deleting has already been rejected before. But you are right, in that the need for large amounts of mana is essentially limited to one-time uses like charging the terra shatterer or enchanting tools – things you realistically need to before you can produce large amounts of mana quickly.

Then again, how does a mod with a similar automation focus handle the energy issue? Create does so by making energy simply impossible to store. Then again, it also allows you to scale energy usage of machines to run them faster. Maybe the latter part is something Botania should do more:

all lens effects need to somehow scale with the amount of mana in the burst (e.g. paintslinger currently doesn't care about the burst size in relation to the amount of blocks affected; enchanted lenses were mentioned before, and could require more mana for the same type of action; bouncing mana bursts doesn't use mana either)
other automated mana uses could potentially have a mode that increases output in some way (e.g. a "dreamwood avatar" that makes its rod interactions count as player actions, but uses significantly more mana for that bonus)
maybe large-scale mana storage should not be quite as lossless as it is now (although that might break contraptions that rely on) – there's no real, reliable way to enforce such mana loss, though. (e.g. if you make mana pools randomly loose mana if there's a large number of them in an area, you still haven't covered just putting full tablets into shulker boxes, and those into chests)

Wormbo

Here's a controversial one: Nerf the Hopperhock and boost the usefulness of overgrowth seeds/enchanted soil.
As it stands, the Hopperhock might be among the most powerful automation tools in the mod, even outperforming ranged item pickup options from other mods in certain regards, while overgrowth seeds are quite rare and merely let you run the same flower at double speed, which doesn't even do anything for a lot of flowers (Hopperhock is one of the flowers that simply doesn't care).

So, here's a suggestion for a quite radical, potentially breaking change:

Hopperhocks now have a default cooldown between picking up item entities, maybe the same as hoppers, maybe half that, but somewhere in that range. To get rid of the cooldown you need to supply only a little mana. The cost could be the same as it currently is (the minimum amount of mana technically possible), but it would be consumed after each picked up item entity instead of at the end of a tick where items were picked up. With enough mana, the Hopperhock could still pick up a large amount of item entities per tick. The maximum number would depend on the size of the internal buffer.
Similar for the Rannuncarpus – supplying mana doesn't increase the placement range, but reduces the cooldown between placed blocks from currently 0.5 seconds to e.g. 0.1 second. Mana consumption would stay the same, it's currently the minimum technically possible amount.
Enchanted soil would get new effects for flowers where the speed increase is either a mana effect or wouldn't have any meaning. In the case of Hopperhocks and Rannuncarpus that would be the (currently mana-based) range increase. Other effects could include a reduced mana cost for flower operations (e.g. letting the Spectranthemum consume less mana, which implicitly increases its maximum possible item teleportation range)
Since enchanted soil would be a lot more useful now, the scarcity of overgrowth seeds and not being able to really relocate the soil would be quite a feel-bad thing. To reduce those, various restrictions could be lifted, e.g. enchanted soil could be obtained using silktouch, and overgrowth seeds could be removed from the Loonium exclusion list.

Amygdala

Wormbo I think the overgrowth seeds need to be strengthened rather than nerf Hopperhock.
Actually just nerfing will only make people look for alternatives, usually with other mods. For example, overgrowth seeds are used to completely eliminate the Hopperhock cooldown, which can reduce the delays associated with the item entity in a large-scale quarry.

Wormbo

The dev notes mention "Do something new with gaia spirits". Maybe reducing the currently fixed part of the flower pickup delay with a new type of attachment for flowers that uses gaia spirits in its recipe could be one of those uses. The effect would obviously be limited to flowers that pick up items with a delay (e.g. hopperhock, endoflame, rannuncarpus, spectranthemum; not gourmaryllis or spectrolus), but could maybe be scaled in some way.

The hopperhock has an item pickup rate/range combination that is superior to what a lot of other ranged hopper implementations have. Its only downside is the initial delay. I wouldn't want to just get rid of that without introducing some kind of cost.

Then again, maybe the key to both is using both overgrowth seeds and gaia spirits in some kind of combining recipe with other ingredients to create range and/or speed boosters for flowers. Using these boosters would require enchanted soil, though. (And better availability of overgrowth seeds.)

Kartabass

Wormbo I'd like to add "Do something new with Netherite"

Wormbo

Another thing I just noticed: The Ring of the Mantle makes the Adrenaline brew kind-of obsolete, as both grant Haste 2, except the ring does so indefinitely and probably also cheaper, since it only consumes a bit of mana when it's actually relevant.
The ring could instead only grant Haste 1 (which is still enough to instantly mine terracotta or basalt with Efficiency 5), but also reduce the hardness of other stone-like materials (cobblestone, netherbricks, and especially deepslate) to that of stone. That way it effectively enables instant mining of those materials in the presence of another Haste 2 source, like a beacon or the Adrenaline brew.

Wormbo

At this point, some of these here are probably 1.21 suggestions already…

One just in from Discord: The upgrade to terrasteel armor should use a smithing template. The template could cover the common costs of the four current upgrade crafting recipes, and the upgrades on the smithing table themselves include the smithing template, the manasteel armor piece and the corresponding rune as ingredients. (I assume the smithing templates would not be copyable, as it is crafted directly.)

adarsh

Probably should have been done a while back but adding Blaze Lamps to the infiniburn_overworld block tag.

Pookly

Wormbo That would make my automatic chicken spammer quicker, and I need that to 'help' my friends >🙂

Pookly

What if there was some endgame multiblock that used both Gaia Spirits and massive amounts of mana to brute force a working ally of elementium and terrasteel? Or to make endgame non-renewables with certain catalysts, like elytras or dragon eggs with ender air. Or to over-power elementium tools to make them have special abilities. Or unlock some second mode for some flowers. Or to empower relics for the Dice. There are a lot of ideas you could use with an endgame construct like that.

Wormbo

danone__ Would be Great to have some netherite usage for botania items. Since Diamond was power Crept with netherite, maybe terrasteel's craft using netherite instead of diamonds or using the new Smithing mechanic to upgrade the Terrasteel armor.

I agree that Botania should be acknowledging more of the post-1.12 content, but pushing Alfheim further back isn't it. However, currently you can get yourself Botania's best armor and tools before you get access to its second-best. While I wouldn't want to see netherite being required for making terrasteel, requiring it or at least a netherite upgrade template to make the terrasteel armor (and maybe also the tools) could be a viable way to sort out that progression issue. There have been suggestions to extract the terrasteel armor recipe into a crafting recipe for a terrasteel upgrade template and have the actual upgrade become a smithing recipe. That upgrade template recipe could, for example, replace the armor piece in the usual crafting recipe with an netherite upgrade template and the rune with a netherite ingot. (I recognize that would be quite expensive, as it raises the price for an armor piece by 7 diamonds and 1 netherite.)

The new armor trims would look fantastic with botania armors, would understand if it's not implemented tho.

Unfortunately the Botania armors have a different texture layout than vanilla armors, so it's not possible to reuse the vanilla trim overlays, or any modded ones for standard armor. I'm not sure what the best way to solve that issue would be, but I assume it would involve redoing the armor models such that their "standard bits" would use the same texture layout as vanilla armor and "bonus bits" would be mapped to unused parts of the vanilla armor texture. One major difference between the current armor textures and the vanilla ones is that vanilla armor faces have an even number of pixels for horizontal symmetry, while Botania armor uses odd pixel counts where one column of pixels is the center line.

The likely easier part of armor trim support should hopefully be adding Botania materials as trim colors. There are 3 new metals and 7 new quartz variants, and maybe mana diamond and dragonstone can provide unique color schemes as well.
The issue here only is that there seem to be various disagreeing ways to add armor trim materials, some more compatible than others.

Wormbo

Random thought on the Ring of Correction: Should it maybe not switch to (enchanted) tools with low durability, or even switch away from them?

Wormbo

Should floral fertilizer maybe grow shimmering mushrooms when used on nylium?
And speaking of nylium, should there be pasture seed equivalents for netherack that produce one of the two nylium types?

adarsh

Extrapolated Buckets should probably be able to void fluid stored in cauldrons.

adarsh

Would be nice to allow lenses to be applied to a mana blaster by right-clicking in-inventory, similar to adding items to a bundle.

adarsh

In 1.20.5, the ability to add custom banner patterns via datapack was introduced. Perhaps some of the patterns that Botania adds could be shifted to using patterns rather than items/blocks themselves for the 1.21 port?

I also think it may be worth trimming down the number of patterns Botania adds - personally I'd be happy with just the tater and Botania sprout, maybe the spark augments too. Could just call them Tater Charge and Sprout (would be Sprout Charge but I think infusing paper on the terra plate could be a neat alternative to crafting with terrasteel, or even Loonium-exclusive loot).

A couple are outdated due to the recent Botania and not so recent JAPPA retextures - Lexicon, Mystical Flower etc. and Fish has been replaced with different varieties.

unilock

While meandering around my 128 Mana Pools full of spare mana, I came up with the idea of Mana Cannons. They would be big and fancy, and use a lot of mana to shoot projectiles that do things. Kind of like a supercharged Mana Spreader I guess. I don't know, I just usually end up with a lot of spare mana...

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